[MHml] Winch vs Tackle

Fri Dec 7 02:49:45 EST 2007

You expressed what I was thinking while reading this thread over the
past few days.  I have a 3:1 plus a 44ST winch on my main sheet, but if
I wanted to dump power quickly, dropping the traveler (2:1 on a clutch
with a nearby 40 winch) would be much faster.  I've never tried this
and, if dumped, not paid out with control, I'm guessing the traveler car
might break the stops at the end of the track (about 20' in total
length).  That would still be better than going over.  Right now, I
station someone on the windward traveler and when it really gets windy,
he is to un-clutch the line and hold it around the winch in order to pay
out if needed.  This, of course, is only when racing.  Just sailing,
even in windy conditions, I would set the boat up with much more margin
of safety.

Regarding the comments about hydraulics, I've often wondered if some
type of switch could be made in combination with hydraulic sheeting that
would open a clutch for the main or traveler and could be set to trigger
at a certain angle of heel.  A safety switch that activates when the
boat lifts to a certain angle so that, if you haven't caught the
problem, the switch could be your last defense against going over.
Would the wave action in high winds just be too confusing to get any
switch to calibrate and respond when you need it to and not just when a
wave pitched the boat around?

David Nees

Fitness Resource

TRT1200GT

________________________________

From: HARRY WHITTELSEY [mailto:a46usa5 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:51 AM
To: Informed discussion of multihull issues
Subject: Re: [MHml] Winch vs Tackle

What happened to blowing the Traveler? 

Once you blow it you have time to deal with the rest (Track is 24 feet
wide) which we keep on a Clutch with in reach of anyone in cockpit (we
use self tailing L42's on both sides to adjust then sheet take off winch
leave on Clutch) Works on our 825 Sq Ft Main with  Wing Mast. On my old
Condor 40 same idea but used Cam Cleats But didn't always hold, prefer
clutches. 

Harry Whittelsey 

Great White

A46 USA5 

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Nudd <paulnudd at hotmail.com>
To: Informed discussion of multihull issues <multihulls at steamradio.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:22:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MHml] Winch vs Tackle

From: martin.schoon at gmail.com 1) On a 40' cat you don't really have any
alternatives to winch+tackle. -------------- Correct but you do have a
choice of how much tackle. -------------- 2) I don't like self tailing
winches. 17 years ago I ended up under a flipped 40' cat due to a main
sheet left on the self tailing mechanism. -------------- Hardly the
fault of the winch. I have seen lines from a non self tailing winch
cleated off on a horn cleat but I don't hate horn cleats, I love them.
It is important to use any piece of equipment appropriately. That means
taking the sheet out of the self tailer and in certain conditions hand
holding. 26 years ago I very nearly ended up under a 24' cat because I
couldn't uncleat a mainsheet that I should have been hand holding.
Fortunately someone else released the jib sheet. I had pulled the main
on by hand (8:1 tackle and no winch) and cleated. When a gust caused the
hull to lift the load was so great that I couldn't uncleat (the cleat
was on the tackle). Since then I always use a 'remote' cleat, fixed to
something that doesn't move. After that 'incident' I changed to a lesser
ratio tackle and a winch (not self tailing on that boat) which I could
hand hold without cleating in hull flying conditions. --------------- 3)
The conditions around here have me adjusting the leech tension *very*
frequently. This leaves me with the option of not using the self tailing
mechanism at all or having to put the tail on/off the self tailing
mechanism all the time. ------------- Only to increase tension, not to
decrease. I find that in conditions where I need to do a lot of
adjusting I can do it all by hand anyway. When the wind is up such that
I need to use the power of the winch I don't do much adjusting of the
leech tension. Perhaps that might change if I reduced to a 2:1 tackle. I
guess my ideal system would be a 2:1 double ended with a 2 speed self
tailer in each cockpit and with such a system I would tend to leave the
tail in the tailer most of the time, except in hull flying conditions
where I would hand hold. I don't think I could be comfortable flying a
hull with a mainsheet cleated. ------------ The next sailing season is 6
months away so there is plenty of time for convincing me that I am wrong
regarding winches. My report is definitely food for though regarding
this. ------------- My guess is that you will convince yourself but it
doesn't really matter as your existing system obviously works very well
and you have done a lot of sailing in various conditions without having
a problem with it. Have a good winter. We enjoy our winter sailing. I
expect you have compensatory activities in your winter. Paul Nudd 
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