[MHml] Winch vs Tackle

Fri Dec 7 02:52:02 EST 2007

Afterburner has a 6/1 mainsheet run to a 52 Anderson winch.  All my winches
have self-tailers, we just don't use them for sheets sailing.  Helmsman
holds the main sheet on the winch with 2 wraps (three in strong wind).
Headsail Trimmer holds the headsail sheet.  We also have a mainsail guy for
winching and tailing.  I find the helmsman has the best feel and the fastest
reaction to puffs and changes in attitude.  I agree with Paul that a main
sheet ease has the fastest depower of the mainsail top, and it takes
surprisingly little.  In moderate non-gusty hull flying conditions, I'm
easing 6-12 inches, which is 1-2 inches at the boom on an 80+ foot leech.
Uncleating a sheet may only take seconds, but you may not have seconds on a
high powered cat.  Afterburner's traveler is less than free under load.  Her
capsize ('98?) involved a traveler release and jam, and no time to get the
main uncleated.  Still, in high gusty wind conditions, we have a crew hand
hold the traveler too, as plan B.  Along with sharp sheath knives on both
tillers as plan C.  All this seem paranoid?

Hand holding a sheet on a winch takes a little practice to find how little
force is required on the sheet (at least with an Anderson).  I hand hold all
day without difficulty.  Just keep the sheet snug.

At least one racing F boat has capsized while her crew winched in the
spinnaker in a self-tailer after a gybe, oblivious to the increasing heel
until too late.  Getting the sheet out of the self-tailer was too slow.

Bill 
Afterburner

-----Original Message-----
From: multihulls-bounces at steamradio.com
[mailto:multihulls-bounces at steamradio.com] On Behalf Of Ross Hobson
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 6:03 AM
To: Informed discussion of multihull issues
Subject: Re: [MHml] Winch vs Tackle

On Charleston we blow the travller first - mainsheet is last resort stuff
(held on a ST winch - which i like) we have dedicated mainsheet hand/man
the travell controls the main for 90% of time and situationsand is 3:1 hand
held with no problems.

we don't get full range of traveller when mainsheet is max on, due to load -
modifing this over the winter, we then expect to use mainsheet to load ups
aidl/leech and the use traveller rest of the time.

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: multihulls-bounces at steamradio.com on behalf of HARRY WHITTELSEY
Sent: Thu 06/12/2007 13:50
To: Informed discussion of multihull issues
Subject: Re: [MHml] Winch vs Tackle

What happened to blowing the Traveler? 
Once you blow it you have time to deal with the rest (Track is 24 feet wide)
which we keep on a Clutch with in reach of anyone in cockpit (we use self
tailing L42's on both sides to adjust then sheet take off winch leave on
Clutch) Works on our 825 Sq Ft Main with  Wing Mast. On my old Condor 40
same idea but used Cam Cleats But didn't always hold, prefer clutches. 

Harry Whittelsey 

Great White
A46 USA5 

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Nudd <paulnudd at hotmail.com>
To: Informed discussion of multihull issues <multihulls at steamradio.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:22:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MHml] Winch vs Tackle

From: martin.schoon at gmail.com 1) On a 40' cat you don't really have any
alternatives to winch+tackle. -------------- Correct but you do have a
choice of how much tackle. -------------- 2) I don't like self tailing
winches. 17 years ago I ended up under a flipped 40' cat due to a main sheet
left on the self tailing mechanism. -------------- Hardly the fault of the
winch. I have seen lines from a non self tailing winch cleated off on a horn
cleat but I don't hate horn cleats, I love them. It is important to use any
piece of equipment appropriately. That means taking the sheet out of the
self tailer and in certain conditions hand holding. 26 years ago I very
nearly ended up under a 24' cat because I couldn't uncleat a mainsheet that
I should have been hand holding. Fortunately someone else released the jib
sheet. I had pulled the main on by hand (8:1 tackle and no winch) and
cleated. When a gust caused the hull to lift the load was so great that I
couldn't
 uncleat (the cleat was on the tackle). Since then I always use a 'remote'
cleat, fixed to something that doesn't move. After that 'incident' I changed
to a lesser ratio tackle and a winch (not self tailing on that boat) which I
could hand hold without cleating in hull flying conditions. ---------------
3) The conditions around here have me adjusting the leech tension *very*
frequently. This leaves me with the option of not using the self tailing
mechanism at all or having to put the tail on/off the self tailing mechanism
all the time. ------------- Only to increase tension, not to decrease. I
find that in conditions where I need to do a lot of adjusting I can do it
all by hand anyway. When the wind is up such that I need to use the power of
the winch I don't do much adjusting of the leech tension. Perhaps that might
change if I reduced to a 2:1 tackle. I guess my ideal system would be a 2:1
double ended with a 2 speed self tailer in each cockpit and
 with such a system I would tend to leave the tail in the tailer most of the
time, except in hull flying conditions where I would hand hold. I don't
think I could be comfortable flying a hull with a mainsheet cleated.
------------ The next sailing season is 6 months away so there is plenty of
time for convincing me that I am wrong regarding winches. My report is
definitely food for though regarding this. ------------- My guess is that
you will convince yourself but it doesn't really matter as your existing
system obviously works very well and you have done a lot of sailing in
various conditions without having a problem with it. Have a good winter. We
enjoy our winter sailing. I expect you have compensatory activities in your
winter. Paul Nudd 

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