[MHml] Open Racing offshore vs closed course was Cats vs Tri

[Capt. Len]

Well I am still retired.  Rather get in 3 races a day over a weekend 
then spend 4 weeks offshore.

How about a speed circle with the IYRU 150 sq ft but without the length, 
and beam restrictions.

Single handed and no hiking aids, seats, racks,trapeze or even straps 
allowed.

And lets make it 100 meter  diameter not one mile so anyone can set up 
at local lake, bay impoundments even wide river and try it everyday if 
they want constantly refining and training.

Have several regionals and a national each year to put up or shut up. 
and prove your claims.

Regattas will be match races, with twin circles and an elimination format

In theory one should have a scale weight, boat and crew combined. but 
then we get into other issues.  Not so easy is it. "OPEN"  Racing



Never happen but could be fun



Rob Denney wrote:

>G'day,
>
>  
>
>>Capt. Len wrote:  Hate to rain on the parade but the "D" was a day racer,
>>    
>>
>were about 750 lbs and 2-3 man crew.
>
>Rob:  I know, I am copying it as it is the ideal rule for determining the
>best type of boat with only sail area limitations.
>
>L Not an offshore racer.  If you mandate safety gear you have a heavy and
>expensive multi period..
>
>R The safety gear for solo transpac weighs 107 kgs/235 lbs.  Costs
>$AUS10,000/$US7,500 retail, less if you hire the liferaft, ssb and epirb.
>It is all reusable at the end, and can be bought and sold second hand.
>The boat gets expensive and heavy if you need technology to sail it.   Wind
>driven self steering gear, no instruments, no gen set keeps it all light and
>cheap.  My boat ex safety gear costs $Aus17,000/$US12,750.  That includes
>finite element anaysis of some of the structure and everything is built from
>carbon with honeycomb cores.
>  
>
>L Look at the mini transat with the  6.5 meter limit.
>
>R Mini Transat and Ostar are both driven by rules, which type form the
>boats.  Specifically, a max length which leads to over powered, exciting,
>expensive, technology laden, very hard to sail boats.
>  
>
>L 400 sq ft would be a really under canvased downwind sled if big enough to
>carry the gear. mho
>
>R See Dave's reply on weight.  Surely you can improve on a Val?
>
>L Your mixing two different rules proposals for open racing.
>
>R One rule:  400 sq' of sail.    The course I have chosen is the solo
>Transpac.  Look at this as the first of many races for the class.  Actually,
>make solo Transpac the second race.   I will also put up a trophy for a race
>3 times round a one mile diameter circle course in SF Bay 2 weeks before the
>Transpac.  As many crew as you like.  Rabbit start, so no committee needed.
>
>L Still retired.
>
>R But tempted?
>
>
>Bill,
>Might be a bit small of a boat at 400 sq ft sail area, for crossing oceans
>and all.  I carry 2,000 sq ft working sail on a 52' boat, 4,400 sq ft max
>downwind.  This has me picturing 400 sq ft as a 14' long boat.  Then there
>are supples.  This is going to take 2-4 weeks at sea.  Hawaii isn't that
>close to California and little boats aren't especially fast.  And solo?
>You're placing a pretty heavy seamanship requirement on what is supposed to
>be a boat design competition.  The guy who can go 3 weeks without sleep will
>win regardless of boat.  This is all pretty far outside of my comfort zone.
>Of course I could hire Ross to skipper my design....
>
>R What Dave said about the weight and size.
>Your sail area figures might just indicate how inefficient (not slow, just
>inefficient) a big cat is.  Course is 2,120 miles.  Record is 8 days, an 11
>knot average, so it should be possible in well under 2 weeks.
>
>Ability is always an important factor, inshore or off.  The guy who designs
>his boat so he is not exhausted from sail changes and fixing broken stuff
>will do well.  I don't think you will need to hire Ross or any other of the
>non sponsored offshore experts.  Provide them with a boat and they will jump
>at the opportunity.  I think this would cost a lot less than hiring an
>equally competent round the buoys racer.
>
>B An in harbor buoy course may be more appropriate, you know, the kind that
>takes 1-2 hours, and you do 3 races in a day, with time for repairs in
>between.  I expect these boats will need lots of repairs.  Little boats are
>trailerable and shippable making multiple venues possible.
>
>R Building, shipping and storing Cogito (already proven to be by far the
>best use of 300 sq' of sail around the buoys on the planet) would cost a lot
>more than a solo ocean racer with 400 sq' of sail.  But, see above for the
>round the buoys race, just don't tell Steve Clarke!
>
>B You guys go right ahead and spend weeks in a little untested boat solo in
>the Pacific dodging hurricanes, squalls, and really big waves.  I'll host
>the class party in Hawaii, after all finish :-)
>
>R Transpac is (compared to OSTAR) a slide down the tradewinds.  It is the
>best ocean racing course in the world north of the southern ocean for people
>who want high speed thrills, plus an easily accessible start and a
>spectacular destination.  Solo Transpac is a low key race where huge amounts
>of time and money have not yet been invested in winning, so innovative boats
>are in with a chance and the organisers welcome them, unlike the Europeans.
>
>The boat does not have to be little.  Mine is 50' long x 27' wide, not much
>smaller than Afterburner.  No hurricanes at that time of the year, just
>consistent 20 knot trade winds, squalls to 30 during the night, all up the
>bum, with large swells to surf down.  Gotta beat the hell out of drifting to
>Ensenada to pick up yet another pickle dish with the second boat a couple of
>hours behind.  ;-)
>
>Testing is an integral part of ocean racing.  You have to do a proving
>voyage first.  It helps avoid the "I would have won but my boat fell apart"
>excuse and all the down time doing repairs.   Also reduces the risk of
>dying.
>
>Thanks for the party host offer.  Hope to take you up on it in 19 months.
>It could be held after the third race for the 400 sq' class: 'Round the bay
>in Hanalei', each boat to have at least 2 local people, wives, supporters or
>crew from other boats on board.  Start from the beach, reach out 3 miles by
>gps and return, drop off the locals, pick up 2 more and repeat everyone
>wanting a sail has had one.     Bill to start, finish and arbitrate it as
>part of his host's responsibilities ;-)
>
>Dave
>In either event, the sail area needs to be just as small as possible, for
>pure cost reasons.
>
>R Not just for boat cost reasons.  Low sail area also makes you think about
>what is really necessary on the boat.  A genset, fuel and wiring that is 5%
>of the total boat weight is more likely to be left behind than if it is less
>than 1%.  This encourages thinking about efficiency rather than technology
>as the solution to the problems.
>
>D Offshore downhill is a pretty "easy" course, I'll grant you, but is
>this really a good "test" of a sailboat? I'll take one of Diedre
>Costes' "Zeppy-2s" for my attempt (now called Liftium, in French):
>http://perso.orange.fr/liftium/index.htm
>
>R You find the course easy, Bill finds it hard.  I like it because it is
>fast and exciting, the people organising it are open to innovation and it
>starts and finishes in nice places.    True, it is mostly downwind, but the
>first few days can be a bit tricky.
>
>Suspect Liftium would be in Mexico before it got to the downwind bit,
>assuming a 400 sq' version could actually lift off.  Didier, not Dierdre ;-)
>
>Jesse/Dave on claiming
>
>R I don't think claiming adds anything to it.  Too many variables of
>materials and labour costs and people's wealth.   Plus it is another
>complication.  Keep it simple.   However, feel fre to try and organise it on
>the back of any of the races mentioned.
>
>Regards,
>
>Rob
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>  
>

-- 
Live Long and Prosper
Capt. Len Susman, retired
trikini23 at trikini.com                     
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